Basement Fire Tactics

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Permalink Reply by mike newbury on April 29, 2009 at 10:23pm

What is commonly done in STLFD is to have the first line attack through the bunker door (door from the basement directly to the out side) which is commonly in the rear of the home if a single family or 2,4,or 8 family 2 story flat (our bread and butter in SLFD) and directly attack the basement fire from outside not down the stairs, but in order to protect the stairs and stair wells we have the second line deploy simultaniously through the front door and protect the stairs. The point being "why try to be santa claus and slide down a burning chimney?",\
Now I know FDNY doesn't like this tactic, and I know why...the stairs must be protected and guys on the stairs get a real beating. But with the second line protecting the stairs while not on the stairs getting burned, we cover the same things they do just by a different tactic.

This while maybe different than some, seems to work well for us and can be adjusted if the fire seems in the front of the basement to a rear door entry to protect the stairs on the first floor with the second line instead of the front (just the same as in the original tactic). The why is keep a hose line team from being directly above the fire in the basement due to several near misses and firefighters dropping through the floor of the first floor into the basement.

Another advantage is that many or most of our residential structures have basement windows on the front (side 1 or exposure A) allowing us to if we suspect a basement fire to "kick out the basement windows" and vent the basement and the resulting Lighting up will confirm our suspicions as long as its COORDINATED with the first and second lines attack.
If the only alternative to get to the basement is the interior stairs, (and it is in a few) then we use the interior stairs with a back up line protecting the stairs and the crew on the first line.

The problem I have with the TIC is it is hit or miss with using it to locate the fire until you are on the fire floor, great for SAR though (the tic opinion is just mine lots of guys on my fd love the tic)

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Permalink Reply by Tom Platt on May 1, 2009 at 10:26am

Thanks Mike. Unfortunately two key factors you mentioned were not the case in my particular scenario. 1-no exterior basement access and 2-inaccessible basement windows (covered by ~4 ft. deep porch). That being said, that chimney effect you mentioned was in full force. Single point of entry/egress, poor ventilation. Any other ideas based on this more precise criteria would be appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by mike newbury on May 1, 2009 at 1:24pm

Tom Platt said:

Thanks Mike. Unfortunately two key factors you mentioned were not the case in my particular scenario. 1-no exterior basement access and 2-inaccessible basement windows (covered by ~4 ft. deep porch). That being said, that chimney effect you mentioned was in full force. Single point of entry/egress, poor ventilation. Any other ideas based on this more precise criteria would be appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by mike newbury on May 1, 2009 at 1:33pm

Tom;
Sorry, did not catch the no basement windows, and no exterior basement exit. While the overwhelming majority of private dwellings in my city have these, I understand many cities do not.
A few homes in my area only have interior basement stairs, and we just tough it out when we can, but I have seen a couple of really clever "truckies" do exactly what Erik Pettaway describes, only we posted a guard around the hole through the floor, and "put the tip out the window" (used hydraulic ventilation) just above the hole.
The crew making entry down the interior stairs took a beating, but as long as they got it before the floor got weak it worked.
Mike N

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Permalink Reply by Dave Stacy on June 9, 2009 at 12:51pm

Hey Tom!

On top of my personal opinion, which is that the first engine should protect the top of the stairs while the 2nd due engine gets to steal your fire by hitting it from the rear access if present, I have a couple of other comments I want to mention.

With the fire yesterday, we faced zero visibility and decent heat only 5' in the front door. The truck crew continued into the structure just in front of the engine company in order to find the top of the staircase for them in order for them to get their line in place as fast as possible. We had a significant amount of fire and heat coming up the stairwell and there was no door in order to control this. A smart descision was made for our engine to hold the top of the stairs in order for the 2nd due engine to hit it from side charlie access. This proved to be effective here. Until both our engine and the 2nd due engine started flowing water, we were taking a beating on the first floor.

I found your comment "The problem I have with the TIC is it is hit or miss with using it to locate the fire until you are on the fire floor, great for SAR though (the tic opinion is just mine lots of guys on my fd love the tic)" interesting. After the fire I was thinking about whether the stairs could had been made or not. You hear people say getting down the stairs is the hardest and hottest part of making your way into the basement, but once your are down there things are better. I had the TIC with me and as we were at the top of the stairs you can see the amount of heat and fire coming up them. However, like you said, you don't know what's down there. A simple room off, yeah you can probably make the basement by getting down those stairs quick. In our case, we later saw that the basement was pretty much completely finished, and appeared to have been fully involved in fire at the time of our attack.
Overall, especially today, you don't know how basements are being set up. More and more are being finished and even used as living areas. The risk analysis of trying to make the stairs is not worth it for fires that are too developed. Lets face it, a very involved fire in the basement gives any firefighter, let alone civilian, a very limited amount of time. The focus should always be to limit fire spread to upper floors and protect and search the floors above a basement first.

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Permalink Reply by Rex Strickland on July 5, 2009 at 2:45pm

While my comments are not specific to your scenario, this is my opinion on basement fires. I realize that every jurisdiction is different with many building types and construction; however, today's new lightweight construction seems to be the basis of recent LODD and near misses. It is scaring many firefighters and as a result, you are seeing several articles, opinions, SOPs, and scientific tests.

One of the best things we can do is to "take a lap." Taking a lap, does not mean “running around” to check that box off, but to intentionally look and find the lowest level of fire involvement (the basement fire.) The recent underwriters laboratory tests LINK TO TEST noted that it was extremely difficult to notice fire below you using a thermal imager. It did not take into account firefighters forcibly sounding the floor or taking a lap. Basement fires in newer 5A construction, which are often unprotected (unfinished basements), pose a huge danger to firefighters, usually within the first steps through the front door. Close Call LODD
NIOSH SEARCH RESULTS FOR BASEMENT FIRES


What can we do to make things safer?
1. Make a full lap to confirm the lowest level of fire involvement, including running side-Charlie / deck fires.
2. Report findings from the lap to include: grade changes (two in the front – three to the rear), location of fire (level and quadrant, if possible), and with well-involved basement fires – hold companies to the threshold of the front door.
3. Deploy a line to attack the basement fire from an exterior door that leads directly into the basement (side-Charlie basement door). This could also mean attacking a basement from a window. I am not implying an exterior attack every time; however, it needs to be considered since the whole point is to avoid falling through the floor into the basement. Likewise, if that is the case, you also need to be mindful that the floor above you may collapse on top of you. You have to size-up the level of fire, duration, and potential of unprotected “lightweight” floor trusses failing to make that decision…
4. Deploy a second line to protect the interior stair from the threshold of the front door. Remember that stairs leading “down” to the basement are typically located under the stair leading “up” to the second floor. In well-involved basement fires, not only are the floor joists susceptible to failure from fire, so are the stairs. That’s important when making a decision to use the stairs to do a search on the top floors.
5. Vent, enter, and search the top floor or simply access the second floor by ladder to search the entire floor, which is a different procedure from VES.
6. Deploy a back-up line (third line) for the first line going in (side-Charlie basement entrance.)
7. “Consider” a fourth line to go with the units searching the top floor.

There are sometimes arguments about whether the first line should go to the rear or to the front door to protect the stairs leading to the basement. Many factors influence that decision; however, the faster the fire goes out, the faster everything else gets better – search, victim viability, structural stability and so on.

Charging down the throat is still an option. It can be an unforgiving venture and you must have your act together before making your way down the stairwell. Considerations: having enough line, so that the push can be done in one fluid action. You do not want to get stuck in the middle of the stairwell because the line got stuck. The sooner you get down to the bottom, the better. Check the stairs! Check the stairs! Check the stairs! Often unprotected (without drywall) they are very susceptible to fire. If you do not have an exterior means into the basement (which is why you're down going the stairwell) you do not want to leap to the bottom, only to find out the stairs are burned out. And lastly, like the first reply, have a back-up line in place just outside the door, just in case.

Be safe-

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