4' hooks a.k.a. Closet Hooks, any comments?

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Permalink Reply by Chris Piepenburg on December 5, 2008 at 10:25am

The next time that you are on a fire take a second to look at who is actually carrying the 4' hook. If it is anything like I have seen you will find that the person carrying that tool is the one who does whatever he can to NOT do any work, but because it has been drilled into his head that he has to carry a tool this is what he grabs. Most of the time this person will drag behind the company, but when a chief comes around they are furiously punching holes in the wall to "check for extension." You will also find that when their air bottle starts to run low they will be the first one out of the building sitting at the rehab truck telling everyone how they were in there "doing it!"

So, the next time you see this guy lolly gagging around the fire scene tell him to get a real tool, do some work or have him go tell the chief that he is going to go sit in the rig and to send someone in his place that will actually do some work!

Permalink Reply by Rick Fritz on December 5, 2008 at 10:29am

So true, so why even have a 4' hook for him to carry?

Chris Piepenburg said:

The next time that you are on a fire take a second to look at who is actually carrying the 4' hook. If it is anything like I have seen you will find that the person carrying that tool is the one who does whatever he can to NOT do any work, but because it has been drilled into his head that he has to carry a tool this is what he grabs. Most of the time this person will drag behind the company, but when a chief comes around they are furiously punching holes in the wall to "check for extension." You will also find that when their air bottle starts to run low they will be the first one out of the building sitting at the rehab truck telling everyone how they were in there "doing it!"

So, the next time you see this guy lolly gagging around the fire scene tell him to get a real tool, do some work or have him go tell the chief that he is going to go sit in the rig and to send someone in his place that will actually do some work!

Permalink Reply by John A. Van Doren on December 5, 2008 at 3:45pm

Typically most residential ceilings in our area are 8 foot high. If you use the six foot hook, this gives you only 2 feet of maneuverability. I know the 4 foot hook has its limited special purpose just as many of our other tools do, but there is also the balance aspect of the hook to consider as well. Our fiber glass handle hook is typically less weight (probably why your "slackers" carry them) than our Probar halligan, and can be used more repetitively. The 4 foot hook has an 18 inch longer handle than our 30 inch halligan which has been better for a more agronomical grip leading to more effective sustained pushing and pulling. Our 4 foot hooks have D handles as well. No "slackers" here...the 4 foot hook is usually called for during specialized overhaul, so no one is just leaning on it.

Permalink Reply by Rick Fritz on December 5, 2008 at 4:09pm

A "D" handle put too much stress on the forearm, could cause a break if something solid is hit. name 1 thing you can do with a balanced 4' hook that I can't do with a halligan.Granted the halligan is much heavier. I may not be able to do as many reps with the halligan. We're all short staffed, its all about efficiency!

John A. Van Doren said:

Typically most residential ceilings in our area are 8 foot high. If you use the six foot hook, this gives you only 2 feet of maneuverability. I know the 4 foot hook has its limited special purpose just as many of our other tools do, but there is also the balance aspect of the hook to consider as well. Our fiber glass handle hook is typically less weight (probably why your "slackers" carry them) than our Probar halligan, and can be used more repetitively. The 4 foot hook has an 18 inch longer handle than our 30 inch halligan which has been better for a more agronomical grip leading to more effective sustained pushing and pulling. Our 4 foot hooks have D handles as well. No "slackers" here...the 4 foot hook is usually called for during specialized overhaul, so no one is just leaning on it.

Permalink Reply by John A. Van Doren on December 5, 2008 at 7:47pm

I think you may have answered your own question.

My point was that it is easier to work with in certain situations, and we are able to do more pushing and pulling with our 4 foot hook versus the 30" probar. I'm with you on the arm damage caused when you hit something...we only use the D handle once we have probed and figured out where we are in relationship to the structural members.

I guess if you hate those closet hooks that much, I would "accidently" cut them all in half and be done with them. Then you would have two door chocks...

This tool is not the first thing through the door.

Permalink Reply by Jamie Morelock on December 5, 2008 at 8:49pm

John A. Van Doren said:

Typically most residential ceilings in our area are 8 foot high. If you use the six foot hook, this gives you only 2 feet of maneuverability. I know the 4 foot hook has its limited special purpose just as many of our other tools do, but there is also the balance aspect of the hook to consider as well. Our fiber glass handle hook is typically less weight (probably why your "slackers" carry them) than our Probar halligan, and can be used more repetitively. The 4 foot hook has an 18 inch longer handle than our 30 inch halligan which has been better for a more agronomical grip leading to more effective sustained pushing and pulling. Our 4 foot hooks have D handles as well. No "slackers" here...the 4 foot hook is usually called for during specialized overhaul, so no one is just leaning on it.

Hey Bro, 2' of maneuverability? Only if you are using the hook perfectly vertical. The idea is to use the length of the hook to stay out of the drop area. Haven't you been paying attention when I talk about tools and overhaul? Nothing is funnier than watching someone extend their arms straight up with a 4' hook and jump up and down to pull ceiling. You might get away with it, but the rest of us are not 6'5" with your 40" reach. The other issue I have is guys try to use them as a prying tool or for other functions that it was not designed for...why not just carry a halligan. If it too heavy maybe they need to stick to engine work. We carrying several hook lengths from 6' to 12' and I base my selection on the knowledge of the districts to which I respond to. My rule of thumb is between 2' - 4' short of ceiling height. I prefer to keep it closer to the 2' mark. While I am busting your stones...you never call, you never write...

disclaimer: John A. Van Doren is a close personal friend...at least I think he still is.

Permalink Reply by Jamie Morelock on December 5, 2008 at 8:54pm

Saw this at FDIC last year and had to chuckle.

Permalink Reply by Doug Ott on December 5, 2008 at 9:26pm

Our closet hooks are even shorter. They are about 2 feet long from tip to D-handle. They don't come off the truck much. And with me being only five-and-a-half feet tall they aren't much use to me. I could always put in for a mini-trampoline. I love my 5-foot roof hook when I'm not assigned the irons. It works great in a typical residence with 8ft ceilings and they are also great for taking apart a mobile home using the pry-end. Have fun and stay safe, Doug

Permalink Reply by Rick Fritz on December 5, 2008 at 9:30pm

CUT THEM IN HALF! Stack 'em on top of the fog nozzles,next to the water curtain, behind the Bean High Pressure pump. Some ideas start out ok, but then they are seen for what they really are!

John A. Van Doren said:

I think you may have answered your own question.

My point was that it is easier to work with in certain situations, and we are able to do more pushing and pulling with our 4 foot hook versus the 30" probar. I'm with you on the arm damage caused when you hit something...we only use the D handle once we have probed and figured out where we are in relationship to the structural members.

I guess if you hate those closet hooks that much, I would "accidently" cut them all in half and be done with them. Then you would have two door chocks...

This tool is not the first thing through the door.

Permalink Reply by Rick Fritz on December 5, 2008 at 9:33pm

That's what "D" handles are for, hanging tools up!

Jamie Morelock said:

Saw this at FDIC last year and had to chuckle.

Permalink Reply by Rick Fritz on December 5, 2008 at 9:38pm

Hooks SHOULD be 6' minimum, if the closet hooks are shorter than "normal" why even take up space with them?

Doug Ott said:

Our closet hooks are even shorter. They are about 2 feet long from tip to D-handle. They don't come off the truck much. And with me being only five-and-a-half feet tall they aren't much use to me. I could always put in for a mini-trampoline. I love my 5-foot roof hook when I'm not assigned the irons. It works great in a typical residence with 8ft ceilings and they are also great for taking apart a mobile home using the pry-end. Have fun and stay safe, Doug

Permalink Reply by Doug Ott on December 5, 2008 at 9:53pm

That's a good question. Maybe I'll have to work on that next rotation.

My 5-footer is my personal hook that I bought myself. One thing I like about the 5-foot size is it gives me a little more room for momentum while putting it through the plasterboard. Our shortest pike pole is a 6-footer. One problem is that our newer pike poles have fiberglass handles that are so big around that you can't get a good grip on them. And if you tried to tape them, they wouldn't fit back in the slots in which they are stored. Just another battle. Baby steps.

Rick Fritz said:

Hooks SHOULD be 6' minimum, if the closet hooks are shorter than "normal" why even take up space with them?

Doug Ott said:

Our closet hooks are even shorter. They are about 2 feet long from tip to D-handle. They don't come off the truck much. And with me being only five-and-a-half feet tall they aren't much use to me. I could always put in for a mini-trampoline. I love my 5-foot roof hook when I'm not assigned the irons. It works great in a typical residence with 8ft ceilings and they are also great for taking apart a mobile home using the pry-end. Have fun and stay safe, Doug

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