TFT Low pressure atomatic nozzle or 15/16 smooth bore

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Damon Allen on October 6, 2011 at 2:31pm

Dangerous. Especially if you do not understand that a good water stream may mean low GPM's. I would go with a 15/16 or a 1" smoothie.

Permalink Reply by Damon Allen on October 6, 2011 at 2:33pm

Look here for a prior discussion:

http://community.fireengineering.com/forum/topic/show?groupUrl=star...

Permalink Reply by Chris Piepenburg on October 6, 2011 at 3:06pm

I agree with Damon!  The spring that is in the automatic nozzles produce a pretty stream, even at low pressures, which could lead an inexperienced pipeman to get a false sense that they are getting the proper gallonage.  We use a break apart, constant gallonage nozzle with a fog tip and a 15/16 inch smooth bore.  I prefer the smooth bore myself as it can be used at a lower pressure with better penetration than the fog. 

Permalink Reply by Gary Lane on October 6, 2011 at 5:41pm

Smooth Bore w/ the 15/16 tip.  The simplicity and near problem free design and mechanics as well as cost savings just seems like a no brainer.  Its funny that every year, fog/adjustable tips change to try and be more like a smooth bore... doesn't that make the message even clearer?  Why do people continue to have such reservations about the smooth bore?  Just seems weird to me.  Good luck with your purchasing!

Permalink Reply by Damon Allen on October 6, 2011 at 7:50pm

You know what Gary. It is interesting you say that. The evidence can be further proven by the manufacturers peddling these low pressure fog nozzles the past couple years 150@50psi, etc. However what FD's did not consider was that by using older technology hose with newer low pressure nozzles they ended up having huge kinking issues.

Every nozzle can flow water...but the question is now; how can it be done simply and cost effectively? And I would have to lean too smoothies with only a few exceptions. I can't tell you how many times on the training ground or on a scene that I have seen inexperienced nozzlers fumble with a fog nozzle. It all boils down to training, experience and application.

FTB

DAMON

Permalink Reply by Erik Hayes on October 7, 2011 at 11:35pm

I am glad this discussion came up, we have the TFT Automatic Fog Standard/Low pressure with breakaway tips to the 15/16 smooth bore on our 1 3/4" 

The standard gives a nice stream no matter the gallonage. 

The low pressure stream increases the gallonage by 50 GPM or more at the same pressure with less reach.  I think the main idea of the low pressure fog is for high rise type scenarios when your pressure sucks and you still want at least 100 GPM flowing, which as I said, has less reach. 

The 15/16 Smooth Bore of course gives you 185 GPM at 50 psi NP.  The only problem is, the TFT 15/16 Break away smooth bore does not feel like a normal smooth bore.  It is not an ideal smooth bore and does not flow like one.  The hose is extremely awkward to handle.  I have not experienced anything like this before except with these tips.  A regular smooth bore tip is much better. 

If you want a smooth bore, buy a real smooth bore.  Not a breakaway tip. 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Gary Lane on October 8, 2011 at 7:48am

Damon- You hit the nail on the head in regards to "old hose technology"!  I recently did some flow testing with 2 different departments and actually had better flows on NEW 1 1/2" than OLD 1 3/4"!  That shocked everybody.  We found the same with 2 1/2"... there was a 10 psi difference per 50 feet!  If you have a de-lam issue and dont know it, thats a huge friction loss issue as well as a burst length just waiting to happen!   If someone is looking to increase their flows, I would consider testing some new hose as well, not just the nozzles... obviously the cost of all new hose is going to be a big issue, but what about replacing a few sections?  Maybe if you use 200' pre-connects, just those to start?  Make it a different color so it stands out easier and gets replaced to the same rig?  Great discussion!

Damon Allen said:

You know what Gary. It is interesting you say that. The evidence can be further proven by the manufacturers peddling these low pressure fog nozzles the past couple years 150@50psi, etc. However what FD's did not consider was that by using older technology hose with newer low pressure nozzles they ended up having huge kinking issues.

Every nozzle can flow water...but the question is now; how can it be done simply and cost effectively? And I would have to lean too smoothies with only a few exceptions. I can't tell you how many times on the training ground or on a scene that I have seen inexperienced nozzlers fumble with a fog nozzle. It all boils down to training, experience and application.

FTB

DAMON

Permalink Reply by Greg Wyant on October 8, 2011 at 11:48am

Thank you Brothers for your response ..We currently use a elkhart breakaway with a 15/16/smooth bore tip with a small stream shaper .. I feel going to the tft is going in the wrong direction........