Reality Check: Out of the frying pan and into the fire?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sunshine Lemme on April 20, 2008 at 7:39am

We do not have a department-wide policy for an escape system. My truck company "encourages" its members to carry coil of thirty plus feet of tube strap with a figure-eight on a bight in the leading end large enough to accommodate a haligan.

Luckily we do not have very many tall buildings that would require more than that, but we do have two of four stories and are building a lot of two and a half and three story vacation homes, so I think our current system is ready for an overhaul. If anyone have a recommendation, let me know.

Of course, the hardest part is, as always, changing the old culture.

Permalink Reply by Chuck Fager on May 5, 2008 at 3:27pm

We ar in a transition period with our gear. Half gear with Morning Pride half Globe. Internal class II harness with the MP and external calss I gut-belt with the Globe. 35' of 9mm kernmantle stored into our left cargo pocket (bagless). Rope is looped through a rescue technology escape descender which is in-turn attached to 16" webbing (doubled and stitched) which is attached to the D ring on the harness. The webbing allows the rope to stay concelaed and out of the elements. Pulling the slack is a bit of a bear.

Permalink Reply by Chuck Fager on May 5, 2008 at 3:51pm

I tried the System that the FDNY uses with the Crosby Hook and the Petzl Exo. I like it. It's easy and practical.

Permalink Reply by Greg Sellers on May 18, 2008 at 2:53pm

I have a similiar system as FDNY. Mine consists of the Globe Gear with the built in Class II harness, 40 ft of kevlar heat resistant rope with Crosby hook attached to the Class II Harness with short (9") piece of 1/2" webbing and carabiner. My descent control device is the CMC escape artist, I've trained on this several times and I've gone out the window as fast as 7 seconds. I also carry it in my left cargo pocket of the pants, I will probably/usually go out the window on the left side, so everything pays out nicely with no snag.

Permalink Reply by Ryan Cox on August 24, 2008 at 12:19am

I carry 35' of 6mm with a munter pretied into the life ring of a Yates Class 1 kevlar belt. I learned a cool trick from one of my local brothers(Jay Birley-Chehalis Fire). Set your munter so that you've got enough slack for a typical window anchor, whether it's a crosby hook or tool anchor. Then use a small zip tie to lock the munter in the full brake position. KEY POINT-Make sure the munter is flipped for a descent rather than take up. Once its set you can bail hands free. Then once your out the window pull the standing end away from the munter to brake the tie and your off and running. I have bailed on this personally in classes and demonstrations for the past year and it works well and is very predictabe. Just another option.

I think any system that you want to use for bailout purposes needs to be prerigged.

Permalink Reply by Chuck Fager on October 10, 2008 at 7:52pm

I recently changed my escape system. Similar to Greg's. It's based on the FDNY petzl exo system... I am using the CMC Escape artist, and the crosby hook. The pros are that I can bail out without holding on to the system, and I won't descend until I release the brake. I can control my descent. I can also let out slack if my only viable anchor is across the room. This is much like the EXO. I wear Globe GX7 pants with external harness loops. So I took to using the Gemtor 541 NYC class II. This has the lightweight aluminum carabiner, and has the extra d-ring on the waist belt. So far I haven't had to use it and I hope I never will.

Permalink Reply by Andrew Brassard on November 24, 2008 at 8:24pm

Currently the only system that we are utilizing is gravity!!! We are not allowed to purchase our own bailout systems.

I am looking for some info on the bailout system that Orlando Fire Department uses, if anyone has any info please send it to forcethedoor@hotmail.com

I am specifically looking for who makes it? How the guys like it? Pros and cons, etc.

Thanks,
Andrew

Permalink Reply by PJ Langmaid on November 25, 2008 at 12:03pm

"We are not allowed to purchase our own..." Wow! As a Union guy I believe that we should never buy anything on our own to provide safety measures. The union should push and shove over safety. However, my department does not want anyone buying these either but the city attorney is reported to be saying the job can not make this decision or force guys to remove them as it is akin to telling a police officer to not wear a bullet proof vest. Once you guys start getting them the city would be accepting huge liabilities telling you to remove them. My suggestion is build a core group of Brothers that are willing to purchase and train on one system (after testing many the Petzl has risen above the rest) and buy that system and then when the dept realizes they are stuck with this liability, they will likely see that you guys have already adopted a standard one and will hopefully approve it. Good luck and remember if we put the fire out there is no need to dive out a window.

Andrew Brassard said:

Currently the only system that we are utilizing is gravity!!! We are not allowed to purchase our own bailout systems.
I am looking for some info on the bailout system that Orlando Fire Department uses, if anyone has any info please send it to
forcethedoor@hotmail.com

I am specifically looking for who makes it? How the guys like it? Pros and cons, etc.

Thanks,
Andrew

Permalink Reply by Andrew Brassard on December 14, 2008 at 1:45pm

PJ,

I agree with what you are saying 100%, that being said my union would/will not push anything! I have been trying to get a bailout system in place for quite some time with no avail. If I have to fork out $150 to make sure that my kids still have a father at the end of my tour then so be it. My department is ridiculously short staffed and almost everything is delayed (searches, vent, water supply, etc.) and all of these things compound the potential to possibly need to bailout.

I also agree that if you put the fire out you don't need to jump out the window, for some departments that is easier said then done.....especially for departments with horrendous staffing (such as my own). At the end of the day I would rather purchase my own system if it is needed than be sitting at a window needing it and it not being there.

Stay Safe Brothers,
Andrew


PJ Langmaid said:

"We are not allowed to purchase our own..." Wow! As a Union guy I believe that we should never buy anything on our own to provide safety measures. The union should push and shove over safety. However, my department does not want anyone buying these either but the city attorney is reported to be saying the job can not make this decision or force guys to remove them as it is akin to telling a police officer to not wear a bullet proof vest. Once you guys start getting them the city would be accepting huge liabilities telling you to remove them. My suggestion is build a core group of Brothers that are willing to purchase and train on one system (after testing many the Petzl has risen above the rest) and buy that system and then when the dept realizes they are stuck with this liability, they will likely see that you guys have already adopted a standard one and will hopefully approve it. Good luck and remember if we put the fire out there is no need to dive out a window.

Andrew Brassard said:

Currently the only system that we are utilizing is gravity!!! We are not allowed to purchase our own bailout systems.
I am looking for some info on the bailout system that Orlando Fire Department uses, if anyone has any info please send it to
forcethedoor@hotmail.com

I am specifically looking for who makes it? How the guys like it? Pros and cons, etc.

Thanks,
Andrew