Structure Fire Assignments

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Erbe on June 23, 2008 at 9:36am

Hey Greg it's nice to hear how it's done other places. As for us I am on Cherry Valley Fire we share a border with Rockford, IL about 90 miles west of Chicago. We are a new combo dept so we are still working on staffing. Our inital response is 1 ALS ambo 2 ffs, 1 engine 2 full time ffs and whoever comes in on the poc side, and 2 chiefs. Time of day and day of week really determine the balance of reponse from us. Our chiefs are usually pretty good at recognizing this and pulling a box right away though. Our RIT is est. by a mutual aid co. Although we usually don't get them until we go to a box. As far as our assignments we ahve seat cards and rig assignments on each rig. This helps alot being that most of our responders are pocs so you never know who is sitting where. Not amemeber of FOOLS but very interested if anyone knows of a chapter in our area.

Thanks Stay safe,

Erbe

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Permalink Reply by Brent Sanger on June 23, 2008 at 10:48am

As far as I know, no one is here is really trained in RIT tactics. And getting equipment for RIT is even harder due to extremely minimal budgets. Most of our fires involve mobile homes, and by the time we get to them with sufficient manpower to make entry, it's not safe to. We do training county-wide once a month, and the training schedule is set out a year in advance. One of our neighboring department's chief (who is a 21 year career lieutenant with Jacksonville Fire Rescue) has approached me on numerous occasions on setting up some training between her department and mine. Our 2 departments are close, both in terms of relative distance and the fact most of our members share dual membership in each department. It makes for a good working relationship. As soon as I can find the time to sit down and work up some training ideas, we will be doing more training together. My biggest thing I am working on is the class I am teaching next month for county-wide training. My department is hosting the training for the month, and the subject is ventilation. It will be a good class, but not as good as I want it to be, due to time constraints. But.....for those that want to learn more, and there will be several, they can come back after the class and get more training.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Wild on June 23, 2008 at 12:59pm

Brent,

Sounds to me like your doing everything you can do. I know it's difficult balancing work, training and everything else that goes with your position.
I enjoy reading your posts on these forums. Keep up the good work!
Greg

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Permalink Reply by Greg Wild on June 23, 2008 at 1:08pm

Hey Brandon,
Thanks for taking the time to post. I sure do not have the intention to turn this into a RIT discussion by any means, but after reading some of these on this site and talking to others, I hope that the Chiefs have something in place to "get us" if we get into trouble. To many time we enter with an aggresive mindset, without a backup plan. It's one thing to approach this in a career department, where there would be multiple units relativley close by, and another thing with volunteer units miles away, if that.

Please be prudent and careful when deciding what tactics should be applied at each structure fire. If there are only 4 firefighters on the scene, is is wise to commit them to the intereior without anyone watching the building and prepared to enter as RIT? Just something to think about Brother!

Go to www.foolsinternational.com and you can search for a chapter near you. Be Safe
PTB-FTM
Greg

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Permalink Reply by Keith on June 23, 2008 at 5:01pm

Hey Bro,
Nampa Fire Department, Nampa, Idaho. Pop served 100k, 5 engines, 1 truck, 4 people on every unit.
1st Eng:attack or exposure (depending on priority)
2nd Eng: Water and back-up line or attack (depending on what 1st Eng did) All engines are 1000 gallon tanks
3rd Eng: RIT
4th Eng: staging 1 block out
Truck: Search (fire and victims) and vent (either horiz or vert)
Battalion Chief: IC
The truck has pre assignments as well. Entry and search (Captain and FF on that side) ladders, ventilation, utilities (driver and FF on that side)
Hope it helps.
Most of us are FOOLS (treasure valley chapter, Idaho)
Keith

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Permalink Reply by Barry Aptt on June 23, 2008 at 6:03pm

I am on Gloucester Fire and we are a paid department protecting 28 square miles of land and 22 miles of coastline with 31,000 full time resident; 50,000 in the summer and respond to 4,000 to 5,000 runs a year average. When we aren't slashed with budget cuts, we respond on a first alarm 2 engines 1 with 4 FF 1 with 2 FF 1 ladder with 3 FF 1 Ambulance/Rescue with 2 FF and a Deputy Chief for a total of 12. We sometimes special call a third engine if we have it @ the IC discretion. As far as assignments, they are basically first in is attack pump, 2nd in is the water supply, the ladder is outside vent and ladders, Ambulance is inside search and rescue and the deputy is IC. As far as RIT capability??? we have none and has been a source of contention for years. They are working on a county wide mutual aid running card that will commit a mutual aid company to RIT on a working fire but it hasn't been tested yet.

I was a FOOL but need to check my status

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Permalink Reply by Greg Wild on June 23, 2008 at 6:10pm

Hi Keith,

Thanks for answering. 4 on each piece, that's great. Very rare in todays fire service. 3'rd engine as RIT, sounds like a good plan. I imagine that they get there pretty close to when the stretch is being made? Sounds like you guys have a good thing going and I hope maybe others here take note. Thats the whole point of this thing, isen't it?

How often are you practicing RIT operations, ropes and knots, rescues from an idlh, ladder rescues and/or bailouts, how about "undressing the structure from the outside", and situational awareness?

Keep up the good work my friend!

Thanks for responding and being a part of this community!
Stay safe as well!
Greg

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Permalink Reply by Greg Wild on June 23, 2008 at 6:15pm

Hey Barry,

Thanks for taking the time. It also sounds like your part of a department that has a system and is working it. The lack of RIT worries me a little, but probably not half as much as you! I hope that you don't need them in the near future. What's the holdup. Not that RIT is an end all/be all but it sure is better than no one outside with a plan!

Anyway, thanks for responding. Contact Ellen Brown on here for your FOOLS status, she can me found under "members and search"

Good luck brother, keep fighting for the RIT concept, I imagine you will win!

Let me know if I can ever help.
Greg

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Permalink Reply by Bruce Green on June 24, 2008 at 9:07am

I belong to the Evans Center Vol. Fire Co., a small all volunteer department in a third ring suburb of Buffalo NY. My department is on of five departments in our town which is approximately 44 sq.miles in land area with a population of approximately 18,000 persons. Our residential and commercial ''first alarm assignment'' dictates that two departments be dispatched. Thats a full assignment from both departments,which,depending on manpower, could bring 4-5 engines, a couple rescue trucks and each departments ambulance. Recently, our fire chiefs council okayed the 24 hr/day response of two tankers from a neighboring town- thats 8,000 gallons of water coming also. During the daytime hours (0600-1800) seven days a week, the assisgnment is enhanced with an additional engine which is dispatched from what would be the normal third due department. My fire dept.'s run cards also indicate that upon a confirmed fire, a truck and a FAST be dispatched. The FAST would come from a department in another neighboring town. There are only 3-4 departments in our general area that provide FAST services,my department being one of them. We are currently assigned as a FAST on two other departments run cards.(Not everyone believes in the FAST concept!!!). No one in our area really utilizes pre determined duties basically, you never know who/what is gonna be first due. Manpower is at times,so unpredictable,that the third due depts. engine in the daytime might be first due! Lastly, I am not a member of FOOLS..there is a chapter in this area..I just never joined. Maybe I will someday.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Beaulieu on June 24, 2008 at 10:00am

I belong and work part time for the Town of Mansfield Fire Department in Storrs, CT. (Just outside of UConn). We are a combination department and occupy three firehouses 24 hours a day with 4 on duty paid personel. We run the EMS for the town out of one station and the other 2 paid personel work by themselves covering the rest of the town from the other 2 firehouses. We respond to all reported structure fires on the initial response with 3 Engine Tanks (1 from each firehouse unless the Ambulance is out). We also receive a mutual aid Engine from one of the 2 career departments that surround us depending which end of the town the fire is in. In addition to the next in Engine, the other career department acts as our RIT team and are only started when there is a confirmed fire (don't ask me why they are not on the initial response). We will also add another mutual aid Engine Tank if the Ambulance is out of / or returning to quarters.

No units on the initial response have a specific assignment until the first unit or an officer arrives on scene and starts initiates the ICS.

As I stated above our RIT is a specific call for service and is only called when there is a confirmed fire. Again I have tried many times being a past volunteer officer myself to get this assignment on the initial response. Myself and many others have fought for this since we respond with very limited manpower. The opposition we get from the old-war-horses is "why start them if 90% of the time we won't need them". We can't seem to get it across that it is a safety issue and it needs to be done.

Finally no I am not a member of the F.O.O.L.S and I don't know of them.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Wild on June 24, 2008 at 12:55pm

Hi Bruce,

One thing that strikes me funny, as how some people in our line of work don't believe in some things. Are they simply against change in general? Makes you wonder sometimes. IF, we are providing trained firefighters outside of a structure fire to watch out for the guys inside and be on standby, why is that such a bad concept.

There are still people who are afraid to change and won't admit it because they perceive it as weakness.
Push the issue.
It's better to be standing around in the front waiting for something to happen, than not and be standing in line at the funeral home.

I'll be passing through Buffalo in two weeks going back to Syracuse, whre I am from.

Give the FOOLS a try and see what you think. Maybe it just might be a life changer!

Thanks,
Greg

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Permalink Reply by Greg Wild on June 24, 2008 at 1:00pm

Eric,
KTF (See www.foolsinternational.com for what that means)

It seems like you have done and are doing all you can do. Sometimes, maybe always, change it rather dificult for some including our leaders. Sometimes we can only keep trying and maybe, just maybe they will come around. The next time your horses say that 90% of the time we won't need them, why not agree and say then ask them to confirm there point by asking them, "so what your saying is that 10% of the time we will need them". Maybe that will help.

Check out the FOOLS site Brother. I think that you will like what you find.
Stay Safe,
Greg

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