Firefighter Accountability

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Permalink Reply by Dave LeBlanc on December 5, 2009 at 3:15pm

Walt....

I like the distinction you make between tracking and accountability.

I think accountability is more of a mind set. For example, no freelancing staying with your crew, staying on task, ensuring your people are where they are supposed to be.

Tags and equipment do the tracking. Making sure that if two go in, two come out.

Nice thoughts.

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Permalink Reply by Todd "Walt" Walton on December 5, 2009 at 4:48pm

Dave,

You have to maintain crew integrity and I agree with the mindset. When we start using an accountablity system with rookie fire fighters during FF1 they do it out of habit because they have always known it. They fall back on their training. Tracking your crew, or the guy beside you, is easy. I'm looking at the bigger picture from the IC point of view. You as a crew leader know who you have and where but as an IC I don't know that. Not to mention, accountability may be tracking several crews. I understand the concept of report change in location, addition/subtraction of crew members but humans are still human. We need something better.

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Permalink Reply by Dave LeBlanc on December 5, 2009 at 5:14pm

"Lojack for Firefighters"

At lot of it boils down to good habits. Good habits based of training and policy.

But as you said, we are the weakest link.





Todd "Walt" Walton said:

Dave,

You have to maintain crew integrity and I agree with the mindset. When we start using an accountablity system with rookie fire fighters during FF1 they do it out of habit because they have always known it. They fall back on their training. Tracking your crew, or the guy beside you, is easy. I'm looking at the bigger picture from the IC point of view. You as a crew leader know who you have and where but as an IC I don't know that. Not to mention, accountability may be tracking several crews. I understand the concept of report change in location, addition/subtraction of crew members but humans are still human. We need something better.

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Permalink Reply by Todd "Walt" Walton on December 6, 2009 at 3:54pm

Several of us have joked that we need a microchip implanted in our butt so we can be tracked but that's about what it boils down to. What frustrates me is that with RFI technology a department of corrections facilty can know where every inmate is because of a transmitter imbedded in their clothes. We have all tracked a package sent by UPS and company from our home computer. Thanks to GPS you can get real time directions in your car or you can be tracked by your cell phone.
In my Bohemian mind the technology exist but it has not been adapted to the fire service yet. I know there is a cost as with anything but wouldn't knowing where all your fire fighters are be worth the investement? I'm also not looking for the stuff out of movies that shows the buildings lay out and the dots moving within. Something the automatically picks up your personnel's transmitter when it is 200 yards (for arguements sake) from the receiver and auto populates the screen allowing accountability to assign them as needed. Using MSA's (for example) technology that is built into some packs the PASS device would pick up the signal when it is within 6-8" (instead of swiping a fob) to let accountablity know who is in a pack, how much air they have, send evac signals, etc. Basic stuff like that.
To truly account for fire fighters and track them on a emergency scene this is what it will take. We need Lojack for Fire Fighters.

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Permalink Reply by Benett Rosen on April 26, 2010 at 9:21am

Hi Walt, Dave,
There is an accountability system that comes close to your wish list. Safescene is an automatic wireless RFID system. The tag is about 1/4 the size of a an EZPass tag and stays in your turnout gear. A tag can also be attached to each apparatus. These are smart tags that have on board memory. The memory contains the firefighters name, dept., rank, certifications, medical notes, etc. A gateway receiver is installed in your 1st due apparatus. The gateway begins "talking" to all tags arriving at the scene. The current range is 100 meters. The incident commander has a well laid out, simple to use display on his portable PC. The connection is again wireless. Arriving personnel automatically appear in the unassigned column of the display. You can click on a name and see their information at any time. This is particularly helpful when mutual aid companies arrive. The IC simply touches the sceen and "drag and drops" the firefighters name into a crew box. The PAR timer begins immediatelly. He can also move firefighters to rehab or off scene. All events and timers are logged for report printing. The tag is IP67 waterproof and the battery lasts 5 to 7 YEARS. The tags are $100. ea.
I like this approach because it doesn't lock you into a brand of SCBA. We're working on enhancements and each improvement won't cost $3,000. like a new TPASS.
Just wanted you to know someone is listening.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault on April 26, 2010 at 11:21am

-When accountability systems are talked about the general uniting theme is usually some type of system that tracks the names of the firefighters on scene and sometimes the company they are assigned to, usually nothing more. This is not accountability. This just conveys who is on scene not where they are on the fireground.
-When the incident commander tracks and records the movements of companies on scene this creates the only true, real accountability, and yet this falls short of actual tracking of the individual.
-When we speak of accountability what we are all referring to is some type of system that allows us to track an individual firefighters movements on the fireground. And this should be the call to arms for the fire service, the creation of a system that truly tracks a firefighter's movements.

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Permalink Reply by Todd "Walt" Walton on April 27, 2010 at 12:52am

Benett,

I'm glad to hear that something like that exist. It's a definite step in the right direction. Now that you have found how to record who is on scene, have you had any luck in tracking where they are on scene?

Thanks,
Walt

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Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault on April 27, 2010 at 11:30am

-Presently the way the IC tracks firefighters on scene is through the use of a fireground tactical work sheet which allows the Batt Chief to write down company assignments and locations as well as tracking times. The flaw to the system is that the work sheet relies on verbal orders, relayed via radio and acknowledged by the company. "Ladder 5 assist Ladder 13 with the search." "Ladder 5 10-4." There is no way for the incident commander to actually know where the company is on the fireground or which floor they are operating on when this communication takes place. Should the company get in trouble en route to the assignment the IC has no way of knowing the company's actual location and therein is the problem.

Todd "Walt" Walton said:

Benett,

I'm glad to hear that something like that exist. It's a definite step in the right direction. Now that you have found how to record who is on scene, have you had any luck in tracking where they are on scene?

Thanks,
Walt

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Permalink Reply by Brad Hoff on April 27, 2010 at 12:57pm

There is 2d technology on this but I heard it's not so great. If some company would get off their butts and help us out using 3D that would be the best but could they make it affordable would be the question!

Until we push the right people to make this technology available to emergency responders like we have for our soldiers and even inmates then we are stuck to currently using the tactical sheets and making sure we account for the brothers and sisters in our crew. It's not the best technology but it is what it is and I hope we can do better to make sure "Everyone Goes Home"!

Todd "Walt" Walton said:

Benett,

I'm glad to hear that something like that exist. It's a definite step in the right direction. Now that you have found how to record who is on scene, have you had any luck in tracking where they are on scene?

Thanks,
Walt

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Permalink Reply by Rick Miller on June 11, 2010 at 10:40am

Brad, Walt, et al.

I'm a systems engineer with an outfit that is trying to do just that. We are working on a DHS program called "GLANSER" which is trying to combine the accountability and emergency reporting capabilities of a PASS device with 3D localization. Using radios to measure range between units INDOORS is really tough since the radio signals bounce off all of the structures and give false indications (radio engineers call that the "multipath" problem). We have some technology that we developed for DARPA that will hopefully address that, and we are adapting it to GLANSER. Our concept uses devices carried by responders that constantly chat with each other and measure how far apart they are from one another. They report their positions back to a base station with a laptop that can bring up a 3D (or 2D) representation of where everybody is. This is still in the prototyping stage, but DHS is driving us hard. They've heard your voices, recognize the need, and are making this a top priority.

A couple of other things:
1. It's interesting that you mention that you want what the military already has. Ironically, while the military is great at tracking vehicles in the open (usually using GPS), they have all the same issues you do when the Spec Ops guys kick down the doors and go inside. The Army is following the GLANSER program pretty closely and may want to use our stuff if we can make it work.

2. While I'm a pretty damn good engineer, I'm not a firefighter and I REALLY want to make sure that we produce a system that is reliable, safe, easy to use, and effective. If anyone reading this has some time to chat with me about this, I would value your opinions and experience. We have our preliminary design review with DHS next week and I would love to have some experienced, even skeptical, eyes look at where we are and what we're doing. We've chatted with a few folks in the community, so we aren't flying blind, but now is the time to make sure we get it right.

If you would like to get in touch, please reply to:

rick[dot]miller[at]argonst[dot]com

(Sorry for camouflaging the address, but the spammers are relentless!)

Thanks for reading this, and thanks for all you do!

Rick Miller
Argon ST, Inc.
http://www.argonst.com


Brad Hoff said:

There is 2d technology on this but I heard it's not so great. If some company would get off their butts and help us out using 3D that would be the best but could they make it affordable would be the question!

Until we push the right people to make this technology available to emergency responders like we have for our soldiers and even inmates then we are stuck to currently using the tactical sheets and making sure we account for the brothers and sisters in our crew. It's not the best technology but it is what it is and I hope we can do better to make sure "Everyone Goes Home"!

Todd "Walt" Walton said:

Benett,

I'm glad to hear that something like that exist. It's a definite step in the right direction. Now that you have found how to record who is on scene, have you had any luck in tracking where they are on scene?

Thanks,
Walt

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Woska on October 2, 2011 at 7:10pm

Great topic and a lot has been accomplished. However, the first piece of the puzzle is following your Departments SOP. If a system can ID you the IC has to know where you "should be".

 

Outside of a system that can track you inside (years away at least) the best we can do right now is ID a member by Company, riding position and lastly name.

 

We (FDNY) recently introduced EFAS, or the Electronic Fireground Accountability System. It is cutting edge and allows the IC to instantly identify any member transmitting on their radio. If the member transmits their emergency alert they are ID'd immediately on every Battalion/Division MDT.

 

Instead of getting into particulars of this system I would be interested in knowing how your Department utilizes portable radios. When I got on the officer and chauffeur were the only 2 with radios. Now every member carries a handie talkie. 

What is your Department policy? Are radios assigned to a position? Who carries a radio? Do you have a "grab and go" system or  members take assigned radios.

 

Stay safe

Tom

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/thomas-woska/10/208/321

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Permalink Reply by Todd "Walt" Walton on October 3, 2011 at 6:08pm

Tom,

We have a combination department with the majority of the department being volunteer.  We also carry our gear with us so if there is a call within city limits we can respond directly to the scene whereas on rural calls we respond to a station, crew the apparatus and then respond.  Just wanted to give you some background to help you understand my answer to your question.

 

Chief Officers, Captains and Lieutenants are all assigned a radio that they keep with them 24/7.  Each engine has 4 hand held radios with three of them being in the Boston Leather radio holster with a lapel mic for the members to grab when they grab an SCBA.  The fourth radio is generally for the operator to use, some have headsets wired to them, some don't.  If they are just a plain radio then another member could grab it if they want.  The ladders have three portables, one with a headset for the operator to use when moving around the apparatus.

 

Hopefully this answers your question.  Now for mine.  With your new system did you have to upgrade radios?  I'm assuming you would have to but then again our cops are identified in the manner you are describing radio's similar to the ones we use.

 

Thanks,
Walt

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