elevated master stream!!!!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Larry Lasich on October 14, 2009 at 5:25pm

For defensive operations it can't be beat. If you are using a squrt you can go though a window or the roof if it's burned off. If you have a platform, cut the roof and shoot through the hole or lower the ladder to the level of the effected rooms and blast them.

Two things; don't mix offensive and defensive. Before you fire the master stream up, INSURE that you have evacuated the structure and have a good PAR. Second, watch how you hit the structure. You don't want to over shoot and hit exterior crews and you don't want to hit a part of the structure (chimney or exterior wall) and have it drop on a crew.

PS. what was the issue?

Larry

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Adam Miceli on October 15, 2009 at 8:36am

Sorry, but I've got to offer a slightly different view on this. I agree that an aerial master stream can be a very effective tool, as it basically gives you much better accuracy of a large flow fire stream. Bringing a nozzle in close to an opening to hit the ceiling and/or walls may open things up (if this is a goal) or otherwise nail the seat if you can get to it. As far as going high and shooting down? Not so much. Unless the roof is totally gone and this is just a way of finalizing.

The differing view is that we would almost never open a roof only to put the stream into the hole. In my view this is poor tactics and defeats our basic understanding of basic fire principle. Heat and fire rises, opening the roof will allow the heat and smoke up and out, just as we want. Sticking the stream in the hole, forces the heat smoke and fire to other areas of the building. It's akin to cutting the hole and putting a fan in it. Unless the fire building is directly exposing a taller building, smoke, heat and fire should be allowed to rise. Considering how heat and fire rises, logic tells us to put out lower fire first and work up, this also addresses some concern of structural weakening, being that the lower the weakening is happening, the more catastrophic the collapse potential may be.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Larry Lasich on October 15, 2009 at 12:55pm

All of that is true Adam, but if the operation has gone from offensive to "surround and drown" ventilation and structural stability have stopped being a factor for me. I just want the fire to go away right now. JMO
Larry

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Peter Nyholm on October 15, 2009 at 9:39pm

The issue was a chief officer was worried about how he would look using a ladder truck at a residential fire, he's got a different mentality, different tactics! It's all about image with him, I don't get it. By the way the fire was already through the roof on arrival, go figure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Larry Lasich said:

For defensive operations it can't be beat. If you are using a squrt you can go though a window or the roof if it's burned off. If you have a platform, cut the roof and shoot through the hole or lower the ladder to the level of the effected rooms and blast them.

Two things; don't mix offensive and defensive. Before you fire the master stream up, INSURE that you have evacuated the structure and have a good PAR. Second, watch how you hit the structure. You don't want to over shoot and hit exterior crews and you don't want to hit a part of the structure (chimney or exterior wall) and have it drop on a crew.

PS. what was the issue?

Larry

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Larry Lasich on October 16, 2009 at 7:53am

Pete,
departments use Aerial devices at residential fires every flippin day. If you need big water you go to where you can get it. The people watching will probably be pleased as punch that you brought the big guns.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Peter Nyholm on October 20, 2009 at 1:08pm

That's the response I was looking for !!! I guess some people are more concerned with what other people think of them instead of getting the job done correctly, too bad this person is a battalion chief !!!!!!!!!!!

Larry Lasich said:

Pete,
departments use Aerial devices at residential fires every flippin day. If you need big water you go to where you can get it. The people watching will probably be pleased as punch that you brought the big guns.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on October 22, 2009 at 1:01pm

Larry Laisch hit it right on the head. Great reply!

▶ Reply to This

▶ Reply to This