To bail out or not?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kevin Terry on March 20, 2009 at 6:02am

To quote one of our industries best trainers.
"If you put out the fire, there is no need to jump out of the window"
Lieutenant Andy Fredricks FDNY RIP

Permalink Reply by Brian C Curran on March 20, 2009 at 8:56am

I totally agree. If you do the basics there is no need for bailing out or a FAST Team. It is great that we train in those areas, however we focus way to much on those areas lately. We are teaching our "new b's" to jump out windows as soon as it gets hot. Guess what I have fought plenty of fire in crappy conditions, we need to get back to basics. This is not FDNY or Boston or even Albany or Troy for that matter, we get maybe 6 signal 30's a year townwide. I go to most fires either as a firefighter or a cop and I see the basic skills are not there.

Permalink Reply by Jake Oreshan, III on March 20, 2009 at 10:26am

I have been running Saturday drills on "back to basic" firefighting. So far I have done 3 since last year, but the turnout is good and the response is even better. I have been teaching basic hoseline stretches, reading smoke and fire, understanding basic building construction, etc. I have also started using Code3D, a free simulation software that allows the user to build fire conditions in realtime, in all different types of building. I also use this program for Haz-Mat. It works great. If you are interested, Code3D.com

I guess the question is, how do we stress the "back to basics" with the new and old?

Permalink Reply by Brian C Curran on March 22, 2009 at 10:33am

Hey if your looking for help let me know, I will come up and give you a hand. Maybe include Village also and do a North/South thing, compare and contrast different ways of doing things

Permalink Reply by Ben Stevens on March 22, 2009 at 3:04pm

I agree..We have gotton away from the basics and we need to be teaching them to the younger guys. We have some guys that have been in for a year and you would think that they have been in for 30. They take a couple of classes and they think that they know it all. BUT...and I think there needs to be a BUT we need a way to save yourselves and our brothers. Even with training and experience s*** goes wrong. I've been in a couple of jobs where I thought I need a quick way out of where ever I was. I'm not opposed to the bailout systems. It's just another tool in the toolbox.

Andy Fredricks was right.

Permalink Reply by Jake Oreshan, III on March 22, 2009 at 3:33pm

I agree with Chief Stevens, I am not opposed to bailout systems either. AND I do agree, we have several members with less than 2 years, and they are HORRIBLE with the attitudes, I call them the 2 year/20 year group. I don't know what to do with them, but then again, some of our officers aren't much better! When I do Saturday drills, the older guys show up, and very few of the younger ones, if any, show up. They don't need to. They are the ones who need the bailout systems, i think, more than the seasoned guys.

Permalink Reply by Brian C Curran on March 23, 2009 at 8:42am

I agree with both of you, the bailout system is a tool just like a cutters edge, k12, or a pike pole. We dont use these tools everytime but they are nice to have when needed. That brings me to my topic the HORRIBLE ATTITUDES of the new younger generation of firefighters in this Town. I call them 622's 6 months on the job with 22 years exp. What do we do????? They take a few classes and read a book and they know it all. Jake is right officers lately are no better. It's these guys that have no clue and make all of us look like the "Jolly Vollie". How do we change these???? All four of us were and still are very aggressive firefighters,officers, and chief officers, and we were all 18, but I dont remember being like this. I think we were always around the firehouse, and eager to learn, not lazy playing Xbox or Wii instead of going through the rigs when there is downtime.

Permalink Reply by Jason Hoevelmann on March 23, 2009 at 9:10am

I agree with most of what everyone here is saying. Don't overlook the fact that these bailout systems are not isolated to being used for just bailouts. I like the fact that my guys have this rope with beeners and a hook on them at all times. It can be a great tag line or search line. We train to make it a universal tool. If you need rope, it's there. The argument is that then it isn't there if you need to bail out, which is true. But don't just look at it as a bailout tool only.

But, as most have said, the basics are needed more than anything else and will likely keep more people safe than anything else. Take care and stay safe.

Permalink Reply by Jake Oreshan, III on March 23, 2009 at 9:17am

Jason, just to add a comment to your reply. We too teach our guys to use the harness as an additional tool. We actually have all of our guys locking in to ladders now, that alone was a huge staep forward. We too use them for several additional purposes. Thanks for the comments.
Jake