Big Water for Trapped Firefighters

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Permalink Reply by Lynn Hancock on January 8, 2009 at 1:57pm

Alex, if I may call you that? You are correct about that is exactly what we teach. Defensive, only because we do not want to cause all of the detrimental effects that accompany master stream effects. The question was to try to get out of the box thinking about saving a firefighter that may be in peril due to advancing fire conditions when all other operations have ceased and the concentration is on saving a mayday firefighter. All conventional ideas have failed. I am just posing the question to get all of your responses. Those I have received are good and have added to my memory bank.

Alex Simon said:

Chief Hancock, in an earlier reply i said:

Big water from master streams and master stream devices are also big weight on that already weakened structure.......

is that not something that should be taken into account in a situation like that? I just finished Fire-1 so i dont really know anything, please correct me if i have the wrong impression about master streams and master stream devices

i remember someone saying that you only use those for defensive mode when everyone is out of the building

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Permalink Reply by Alex Simon on January 9, 2009 at 9:51am

Yes sir, you may call me Alex :) I am just a kid with no experience, Thank you for your reply,
I know when I am hired I will have to forget everything I learned in fire school,

Thank you for allowing me to learn from this conversation

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Permalink Reply by Frank Ricci on January 9, 2009 at 1:38pm

Lynn I will not pretend I know your building construction types and all I know abouth the incident you reference is from the powerpoint that is floating around and the video. I just wanted to add I would be even more cautious and apprehensive about using a master stream in that type of situation. The home appeared to be of lightweight construction and the weight and power of a master stream could have serious consequences on the building and do more harm to the trapped firefighter. I would be more open to the thought of this tactic in commercial situation. Just a thought.

Lynn Hancock said:

Thank for your response. I am talking about a mayday situation in which there is a high probability that the trapped FF is going to die in the flashover or high heat that is stopping other operations. The other example that comes to mind is our other lost brother that I think was in Prince William County. He was trapped in the second story bedroom with a large body of fire being wind driven down on top of him. Awesome efforts were made to battle back to him. I do not know if this type of situation would warrant the use of master streams. If you used master streams at some point in a situation like this, would the cons be outweighed by the possibility of the overall protection of the trapped firefighter. I also think myself that the time to make this happen might not be available. NOTE: Valiant efforts were made to save this firefighter and I am not faulting anything that was done. I just use this a an example of a situation that I have thought about.

Alex Simon said:

yeah but what about steam burns from too much water?

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on January 10, 2009 at 3:04pm

I just saw the Prince William video yesterday in a class. I personally, would be hesitatant to use a master stream on a lightweight truss structure. In the video, the building was falling apart. A valient effort was made to save this brother, but we must do the basics. While we have to take risks, that is our job, we have to do everything from our initial 360 to contiually sizing up the fire building to prevent a situation of using a master stream to get a Brother out.

Lynn, a residential structure, I don't think I would consider it, however, commercial or industrial building would have a beeter chance, if I knew exact locationof the down member

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